To be clear, I am only talking about people like the average working class Trump voter. The ones who just got caught by misinformation, and just haven’t been able to find a way out. Trump and all his mates are terrible people, and should be held accountable.
The average voter is another thing. My attitude is that I got lucky, and found out that Trump and his mates are terrible, instead of getting sucked down a rabbit hole of supporting them. Knowing how fascism works, I don’t know if I’d be able to reliably land on the right side if fascism happened in my home country. And if I don’t believe I could reliably spot fascism, I’m not comfortable acting like those who support Trump could have.
This isn’t a discussion of “just be a good person”. I know plenty of amazing, caring people who believe they’re doing the right thing.
This whole idea of “I can’t say is reliably avoid fascism” is based on this, the school that became fascist for a week. As bad of an experiment that was from that teacher, it was an effective way of teaching how people fall for what should be obviously a bad thing.
I blame capitalism for this one. Misinformation and lobbying is very profitable. Using prior knowledge of what laws are coming into effect is also very profitable. Retiring and becoming a lobbyists is also.
In the US hard facts have become debatable and there’s a shitty system that massively benefits two political parties.
I don’t necessarily blame the people since the system is rigged against people’s interest. They get mad and vote anti-establishment which is still very much the establishment.
I blame capitalism. It’s profitable to keep Americans stupid.
I won’t associate with those fascist.
As a non-USian viewing all this from the outside, I’d say blaming the people at the bottom for what the largest gaslighting machine in the history of human civilization has managed to achieve is absolutely masochistic.
Your anti-democratic political establishment is to blame for this.
Trump voters knowingly voted for a rapist. That’s not hyperbole. It’s a matter of public record now. I think that’s all that needs to be said.
As did Biden voters, what’s your point?
Democrat voters were knowingly voting for literal genocide. This has to be the worlds worst virtue signal.
Oh fucking stop! Trump has ALWAYS been one of Israel’s biggest supporters he’s given Bibi free reign to do whatever the fuck he wants. Stop with the whataboutism already. You people have literally just elected the nazi Party. Admit to your mistake and fucking fix it.
Stop virtue signalling like you have a moral high ground to stand on. Democrats are also the Nazi party. You only like Democrats because you were not the person being slaughtered in their concentration camp and you do not care about anyone but yourself.
I don’t understand your argument. Are you American? What did you vote for and why? If you are not American what do you gain? Are you active outside of Lemmy? What organizations would you suggest to support?
What is constructive on your style of discourse?
The argument is Democrats are cherry picking the sole bad thing their guy did not do. Then they frame the conversation as if that thing is the only thing that matters
removed, he’s already objectively done more than the Democrats did to reign in Israel, you just don’t realize it because you’re a BlueMAGA fanatic that spent the last year doing everything you could to deny and downplay the genocide that Biden was overseeing.
I want you to explain for me how voting for Trump is - somehow, according to you - not voting for literal genocide.
In point of fact: Trump just removed the (admittedly woefully insufficient) weapon restrictions that were previously being applied to Israel
So far, Trump has already done more to reign in the carnage in Gaza than the Democrats did, BlueMaga types like you only don’t realize that because you were aggressively denying the extent of the genocide under Biden.
What did he do?
Secured a ceasefire
Like what? Last thing I read he continued shipping heavy weapons that were previously banned from being shipped to Israel and some clown in his cabinet stated that Israël has some sort of holy right to the land. I’m not American and I don’t approve of the democrats way handling it, but the republicans so far seem worse.
He literally secured a ceasefire; you really need to re-examine what news sources you’re consuming if you only heard that he repealed Biden’s entirely symbolic ban on one type of bomb, but somehow managed to miss the ceasefire.
Besides the irrelevant symbolic posturing from Biden being undone, nothing Trump does or will do absolves Biden.
Lets say Trump raped 70 people and Democrats raped 60 people. One cannot say “I would never vote for a rapist”, and then endorse Democrats. Replace the word rape with genocide and multiply the numbers by a thousand.
Voting for trump would’ve been the same. You really think he cares about ending the war in gaza? Like out of the two who do you think would’ve been easier to convince? In my eyes that was definitely Kamala
Well you should get your eyes checked. Kamala also doesn’t care about ending the genocide (not war) in Gaza.
And trump is different how?
He already secured a ceasefire.
I blame them all to the fullest extent
You highlight an important point: the fascists are fascists because their primitive lizard brain responds to hear and insecurity with tribalism.
And we have the same lizard brain.
Point being: fascists aren’t stupid or inferior, and we need to constantly be on guard to reject the same instincts in ourselves.
Having said that: they are adults, and they should be held responsible for their own adult decisions.
Fuck anyone who actually voted for trump. Period. Edit: it’s on them to try to redeem themselves
Whether they acted out of malice or ignorance, they bear the same moral culpability for the consequences of their vote. They have a social responsibility to ensure they are informed and vote accordingly; everyone should be able to spot fascism and authoritarianism when they see it.
Some of the folk who swallowed the propaganda and want to erase folk like me from the planet may have been conned, but however they got there, their goal is still to hurt other people.
I blame them completely. Voters are not children. You’re responsible for your own actions.
Have you seen them at the polls? You’re right, they aren’t children. Individually i think voters are smart, but as a collective they are dumber than children. If you consider that it’s no surprise that Google searches like “did Biden drop out” spiked on election day.
If a grown adult with the mental acuity of a child assaults you and tries to rob you, you are entirely justified in fighting them off and holding them morally culpable for their actions.
If said manchild instead publically advocates for and votes to have someone else do this to you, they are just as morally culpable.
Idiocy may be an explanation, but it is no excuse.
Which is totally fair. I’m just saying there are a fuck ton of people that either don’t care, aren’t invested in politics, or aren’t online as much as we are. Or if they are online they sure as shit ain’t here or on Reddit. They’re on websites like Facebook where they get fed ragebait like it’s candy because it gets facebook more clicks and more money. It’s easy to see these people as just “stupid” but in reality this is the internet to them and that’s all they see. They’re not stupid necessarily, but when it comes to the important shit they’re definitely ignorant.
As the saying goes, you may not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you.
Democracy doesn’t work if everyone is stupid and misinformed.
Americans currently have an average literacy ability of 5th - 6th graders. Less than 10% of Americans are capable of independently, critically evaluating contrasting information.
A person who chooses to be surrounded by stupidity, and then absorbs that stupidity, is stupid.
Yes, there is a difference between stupidity (low mental aptitude, ability, potential) and ignorance (low actual knowledge set), but ignorance makes you stupid, and stupidity makes you ignorant, or even worse, full of ‘knowledge’ of false facts.
Frankly, I’ll go so far as to say that if you willing choose to consistently retard your own understanding of the world, by getting all your info from idiots on Facebook or TikTok, then you are definitionally retarded.
I’m very, very tired of acting like misinformed idiots, who continuous choose to become more idiotic and misinformed, who are extremely belligerent, do not accurately fit into this definition.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/retard
Merriam Webster:
retard (verb)
to delay or impede the development or progress of : to slow up especially by preventing or hindering advance or accomplishment
People should always care about politics, understanding it is understanding how your life is governed.
Trump has been trash since the 1980s. He was a garbage president in 2016. If you “fell for it” in 2020 and/or 2024, you’re dumber than dirt.
Who else should we blame? Trump won the popular vote, so it was those who voted for him who caused this. Whether they’re dumb as shit or not doesn’t change that.
100%
It’s not like we can even blame it on the fire hose of misinformation the Trump campaign will never be able to stop themselves from shitting out
Trump has already been president. He failed so hard that he lost by over 7 million votes after just 4 years and 2 impeachments while in office.
Then he was found liable for rape and had to pay millions, then he was convicted on 34 felony counts of fraud, and still he was still on the hook for federal indictments for his attempt to overthrow the government in 2020 in which not only did many participants serve prison time for, some died in the process of it. Many of Trump’s own officers were also convicted. Giuliani has been sued into bankruptcy and has been disbarred for what Trump asked him to do.
Yeah. That seems like a good idea to give that guy power again. /s
Trump objectively represents the worst that America has to offer to itself and the world.
He lied his ass off to get his first term, no one learned from that.
I genuinely felt sorry for his victims that first time.
Then he lied his ass off for a 2nd term.
This time, I feel like people deserve what they get this time.
To me, they’re just as culpable as Trump this time. Every horrible thing that happens this time have zero hesitation to remind people that they voted for it.
Genocide Joe & Kamala Cheney are why Trump got re-elected a 2nd term. That and the annoying blue MAGA that thought genocide was perfectly acceptable when trying to beat a fascist in an election. This is their fault.
“The left turned me into a fascist waah”
Put a sock in it already. As bad as you may find the Democrats, they are nowhere near magat level insanity.Genocide supporters like you have no leg to stand on when it comes to calling others fascists.
Not trying to start an argument, just trying to make a point because I’ve been seeing “Genocide Joe & Kamala Cheney” around a lot lately.
What makes you immune to the propaganda? When I see name calling and throwing blame, it’s the exact same shit we see from Republicans. It just seems childish when we could have had actual debates. I’m not saying Kamala did a good job. She was a trash candidate.
And I’m saying this not to be a dick, honestly. I’m just saying maybe you’ve been drinking the Kool-Aid this whole time. The only difference is that it’s blue raspberry instead of cherry. Maybe give that a thought the next time you call a single dad struggling to buy food for his kids a fascist to his face. Because that’s the easiest way to get them to do the exact opposite of what you want.
I’d love to hear your thoughts about how the genocide in Gaza was all made up
Had a long winded comment written out but decided against sending it because like I said, I’m not trying to start an argument. I’m just trying to raise some points.
But just so you know I don’t think the genocide in Gaza is made up. And i think its fucked up that the US decided it doesn’t matter because Israel is our ally. But at the end of the day I’d vote against fascism any day of the week. Because that’s how you get even more genocide. And an abstained vote is a vote for your enemy.
You think trump would be tougher on genocide? You could’ve at least convinced kamala over time, trump though? Haha :') okay
Trump has already been tougher on genocide, dipshit, you just don’t realize it because you’re a BlueMAGA fanatic that spent the last year doing everything you could to deny and downplay the genocide that Biden was overseeing.
I’m British, i have no skin in the game. I’m just on the outside looking in and seeing it for what it is
Well you’re clearly not seeing it for it is, given you’re adopting the hardcore BlueMAGA stance. The fact that you’re not American just makes it even worse that you’re engaging in partisan genocide denial.
It’s a bad argument to blame Biden for what Netanyahu did. Israel is weird subject no American president can be even remotely critical of without getting burned politically
Biden witholding bombs from Israel would hurt his reelection just as much as it would by giving them.
The blowback Biden got for holding up a single arms shipment to Isreal was SEVERE. Not only did it not go far enough to appease those like myself who are appalled at what Netanyahu has not only done but will continue doing, it pissed off every religious nut who thinks that Israel is beyond reproach.
It was a major shot in the foot from the entire country for even attempting to do anything about it.
But not even as major as him just getting old and messing up a debate.
That’s really all it took, that and corporate greed by price gouging Americans and those same corporations calling it inflation and blaming Biden for it.
My biggest gripe with Biden is with Ukraine. It was our chance to shine on the world stage, but Biden always played a day late and a dollar short getting arms shipments to Ukraine.
That and touting those arms shipments primarily by their dollar value, which Trump was quick to seize upon and easily convince morons that Ukraine is just a money pit.
The dollar amount should have been the last thing he mentioned, not the first.
Even without Trump it made people who can’t even afford to put a decent meal on the table for their families wonder why they have it so hard while we’re “shipping billions of dollars to Ukraine”
It took Biden way too long to attempt to explain that the vast majority of the money stays here in the US and is used to create jobs replacing the old arms and ammunition that we’re sending to Ukraine from our own stockpile.
Trump has no substance, but excellent messaging.
Biden has nothing but substance, but terrible messaging.
Holy shit, BlueMAGA really has taken complete leave of reality; I guess the ceasefire has completely broken your brains. You were so eager for the genocide your candidate was committing to “get worse” under Trump so you could gloat about it, and now that he’s instead proven that Biden could have ended the genocide any time he wanted to, you’ve snapped and fully embraced alternative facts.
Yeah you’re just not working with facts. Kamala lost because she didn’t break with Biden on Gaza:
https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/kamala-harris-gaza-israel-biden-election-poll
So why you do the typical… “Genocide is complicated. Biden was actually incredibly young & dynamic, did excellent in the debate” BS maybe you should start looking into facts instead of cult speak
Red genocide is SO different from blue genocide isn’t it?
A lot.
I know there’s a proportion that were simply ignorant and tuned out of politics… but most Trump voters did so over the very loud objections of trans relatives or while openly embracing the nativism.
Lastly, I think that Harris did a terrible job advocating for her election and she owns a fair portion of the blame as well.
Trump wasn’t an unknown this time. He attempted to subvert our election process and he’s a convicted rapist. He openly embraced corruption during his last term and is already shilling crypto bullshit.
Trump voters are terrible selfish people - end of story.
