• bobbyfiend@retrolemmy.com
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    12 hours ago

    So maybe I’m not so stupid for frequently thinking, every time I start Signal (the app): “Sigunaru.”

    • skisnow@lemmy.ca
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      7 hours ago

      I still get a chuckle out of the PIN pads in Spain when they say “Numero Secreto Correcto”

        • Axolotl
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          8 hours ago

          I am sure that english got “beef steak” from there then
          Because “bif” is pronounced the same as “beef” and “teck” is kinda similiar to “steak”, Beef in french seems to be Bœuf which checks out with my theory

          (Note: it’s been a long time since i last talked in French ans i wouldn’t be able to anymore lol)

  • Profligate_parasite@lemmy.world
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    22 hours ago

    It’s even better when the English word is so riddled with vowel syllabics that Japanese phonemes require that it wraps all the way around and becomes unrecognizable…even when it’s “English.” My fav: Makkudonarudo - マックドナルド even tho most people just call it “Maku-do” for McDonalds.

    Also, gotta watch out… just when you think “Pants” is just “Pantsu” you actually just said “underwear” in Japanese.

    • SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world
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      3 hours ago

      Yeah they have plenty of false friends. But that is also because a lot of words come from other languages not just English. Like how パン pan means bread, which comes from Portuguese Pão. The Chinese word Bao also has the same origin.

      Here are some Japanese words that are false friends:

      マンション literally Mansion but means apartment building or condominium.
      コンセント Consent means electrical outlet.
      バイキング Viking means buffet.
      パーカー Parka can also mean hoodie not just the jacket.
      ハンドル Handle means steering wheel.
      ハンドルキーパー Handle Keeper is designated driver.
      トレーナー Trainer means sweatshirt

      Or close false friends like ハイテンション high tension means very excited or energetic in a positive way unlike the English meaning.
      ワイシャツ white shirt is a dress shirt but can be any color not just white. Probably because Japanese office worker dress code used to be a white dress shirt. Couldn’t even wear a light blue one.

    • farmgineer@nord.pub
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      9 hours ago

      pants can be either. Some people claim pitch accent differentiates them, but I think it’s more often context. Generally, it’s better to skip the ambiguity IMO and say ジーンズ (jeans) or ズボン (pants) rather than パンツ (underpants)

      • tetris11@feddit.uk
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        5 hours ago

        yeah. Americanisms creep into the language a lot. We also say “sassy” now more than “impertinent”

    • Hawke@lemmy.world
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      19 hours ago

      just when you think “Pants” is just “Pantsu” you actually just said “underwear” in Japanese.

      To be fair, that’s also the case in English.

      • darthelmet@lemmy.world
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        15 hours ago

        Yeah but I’ve never heard anyone use it that way. I don’t think anyone would mistake you for talking about underwear in most scenarios.

        • wylinka@szmer.info
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          7 hours ago

          I live in Scotland and I was very confused when my friend from America visited and they were like “it’s hot, can I take off my pants” .__.

        • farmgineer@nord.pub
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          9 hours ago

          Pants in British English (and probably more) more often carries the meaning of underpants.

        • Charzard4261@programming.dev
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          15 hours ago

          I wonder when American and English diverged on the meaning of pants, because it very much means underwear over here. Although with how prevalent American TV is (and I guess influencers are these days) people have no problem understanding what you mean… But we’ll have a laugh over it!

          • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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            8 hours ago

            Id guess sometime in the 1800s when certain types of clothes layering became common, more specifically chaps. The jump from pants meaning underwear to pants equals under chaps wear isn’t that far.

    • orbitz@lemmy.ca
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      14 hours ago

      I tried to learn a bit of Japanese, one thing I’ll say (if it was correct hopefully) for the most part you can figure out the hiragana (? I think correct name, whichever is the syllables characters come from) from the syllables.

      Knife? Kite? Yeah completely different in English depending on the word. Would be convenient to know sounds when you see a symbol. Is K a … Nigh or a ke sound. Really English is annoying glad I grew up with it, sounds awful to learn as another language. Sure there’s worse but yeah.

      I think I am pretty much agreeing is all just thought I’d comment on experiences.

      • farmgineer@nord.pub
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        9 hours ago

        Hiragana isn’t perfect. 新聞 is しんぶん but the ん is pronounced more like an m (often happens before some p- and b- sounds) yet there’s no hiragana for standalone ‘m’. It also doesn’t handle devoiced vowels such as in 靴下 くつした socks.

        • TheBluePillock@lemmy.world
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          7 hours ago

          These are predictable rules at least. ん assumes the following place of articulation, and high vowels go unvoiced at the end of words or between two unvoiced consonants.

          • farmgineer@nord.pub
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            5 hours ago

            Yep. There are rules. Just trying to make the point that the orthography on its own doesn’t 100% accurately tell one everything.

  • wowbaggerip@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    So I made a Japanese learning game on steam and I get hit with negative reviews all the time because it doesn’t have enough real Japanese words in it. /facepalm

      • chaogomu@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        No idea what one the person you replayed to made, but Wagotabi is good. It also updates fairly regularly.

        • blackberry28@sh.itjust.works
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          18 hours ago

          That one looks pretty cool. I already know some basic Japanese, so I am not a total beginner. Will this game still be worth it for me? As in, what is the most advanced level this game gets to regarding Japanese?

          • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz
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            9 minutes ago

            If you want one that gets fairly advanced, have you tried wanikani? It’s based on the SRS system (like anki), but it’s more structured than anki.

            About the SRS:

            If you’re not familiar with SRS or anki, it stands for “sustained repetition system” and basically you review things on a timer, and when you get something right the interval until the next time it shows you that one gets longer. When you get one wrong, the interval for that one gets shorter.

            It’s somewhat gamified and broken up into levels and stages. Each stage has ten levels if I remember correctly. Every level introduces new radicals, and then once you’ve reviewed those a few times and gotten enough correct it introduces kanji that use the radicals. And then as you review those it introduces vocabulary that use the kanji. And you review those as well, and once you’ve gotten enough right enough times you move on to the next level.

            Eventually if you get something right enough times, there’s a three month gap before it shows it to you again, and then if you get it right that time it’s basically completed and you won’t see it anymore. Which is good because by halfway through you’re already working with basically thousands of digital flashcards.

            The problem is, for intermediate learners, unless they’ve added a feature since I last used it, you can’t skip the early levels. So you’ll have to painstakingly get through basically all the super easy kanji before you start learning new ones.

            But once you get there, you’ll learn a lot. I think they’re presented by order of frequency-of-use, so if you studied by JLPT or Joyo order before, you’ll likely start learning new ones before you get through all the ones you already know.

            And the last I used it, they had over 2000 kanji. Not counting radicals or vocab, just the kanji. So yeah by the later levels you’ll start to feel pretty confident. If you spend time in Japan, you’ll start noticing that you can read more signs and it will feel amazing.

            About plugins:

            There are plugins for it, but be careful with those. Some can improve the UI a little bit, but some can completely destroy the pedagogical method built into the SRS system and the temptation to cheat can be a little too strong.

            You might install an undo button because you get annoyed when a typo makes you get an answer wrong that you knew, or because you typed the kun’yomi when it wanted on’yomi, but the next you know you’re convincing yourself that you really knew that one even though you just typed the wrong thing because it was a brainfart. So then you as start getting answers “correct” even when they could use more review. Next thing you know you’re burning turtles (their phrase for completing an item) before you truly internalized the concept.

            So yeah, be careful with plugins.

            About the radicals:

            Oh and they don’t teach you the real names of the radicals, like what you’d find in the Kodansha books. They make up their own cutesy words for them, which sometimes have the same meaning as the actual radical, but not always. And they use their cutesy radical names for their cutesy mnemonics later when you’re learning kanji with them.

            It can be tempting to skip the radicals if you’re using plugins, but that will make the mnemonics make way less sense. So even though it’s kinda dumb, you have to learn their names for the radicals. Even though if you call it that in a real japanese class or to a Japanese person, they’ll look at you like you don’t know what you’re talking about. On the bright side though, they’ll be super impressed when they see you have no trouble reading kanji on a menu or whatever.

            Oh and you need to know the hiragana before you can do wanikani. If you’ve been learning with romaji so far, well that’s a bad habit anyway, and now is the second-best time to break it (the first-best time was the moment you started). Just use flash cards. It won’t be that painful, I promise.

            Learning the kana:

            Focus on the hiragana for now; don’t worry about the katakana until you know all the hiragana by heart. And practice your flashcards both ways, actually writing the characters. It will help improve your recognition by a lot, but also it’s the only way you’ll ever be able to write them by hand (which is wayyy different from typing).

            Oh and practice organizing your flashcards into a table that goes 「あ、い、う、え、お」 down the right side, and 「あ、か、さ、た、な、は、ま、や、ら、わ」 across the top (from right to left). That might sound weird, but try it! It will help you organize the characters spatially and you’ll gain a more intuitive understanding of the relationships and patterns between them. It’ll feel less like a giant messy alphabet of squiggles, and more like a coherent and orderly system of phonemes.

            It’ll also show you which ones you still struggle with, because you’ll be able to see the holes in your table (if you’re doing it without looking at a reference, which I recommend. Do as many as you can without it, and only then check your reference to fill in the rest). Then you know which ones to focus on. And each time you build the table, those holes will get smaller until you can put each one in its place without checking any references.

            At that point, it’ll feel so easy that you won’t even know why you have flashcards anymore. But keep using them until you can write each character too. Again, try filling in your table, only this time writing them by hand each time.

            Once you can do all that with the hiragana, you can make your katakana flashcards. Only, skip the romaji this time. Make your flashcards flip between the hiragana and the katakana!

            Wanikani isn’t a complete solution in itself. It will improve your reading tremendously. It will help your writing somewhat, but less so unless you practice the strokes by hand. (Seeing and recognizing a kanji is completely different from being able to write it without looking at a reference. Interestingly, typing only requires you to be able to see and recognize a character).

            What it won’t help with is grammar, or listening to full sentences at a natural pace, or speaking fluently (it will help your pronunciation of individual words though, if you do your reviews with the sound on). So you’ll still have to supplement it with additional material.

            What to supplement it with:

            For grammar, that means textbooks mostly. Maybe some blogs for additional concepts, like idioms, dialects, or casual speaking styles.

            If you want to be able to write by hand, you have to practice the stroke order. It’s the only way to ingrain it in your memory. The Kodansha books will give you all you need for that. If you prefer mobile apps, Jsho and Imiwa both have that information. I think Imiwa is better than Jsho, but unfortunately it’s not on android.

            Shadowing is good for listening and speaking practice. 日本語話しよう is a good textbook/cd for that, or you could probably find videos on the internet. After that, just watching J-Dramas and listening to Japanese music. Avoid using anime for practice sessions though because that’s not how people really talk.

          • chaogomu@lemmy.world
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            16 hours ago

            I will admit to not finishing the game, or really any game. It’s a problem of mine.

            But here’s the one year anniversary update here

            https://steamcommunity.com/games/2701720/announcements/detail/545650698257172084?snr=2___

            in which they announce that https://www.mochijapa.com/ has joined the team to make sure language accuracy is top notch. They’re also working on adding a fourth region to the game with more advanced language.

  • TheRealKuni@piefed.social
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    21 hours ago

    Like that South Park episode about Xbox vs PlayStation.

    “Sony has announced a new Black Friday bundle, called the ‘Burack Friday Bunduru.’”

  • UroFighter@sh.itjust.works
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    22 hours ago

    There is also cases where they strait up invent English word. Like ベビーカー, pronounced “babika”, which is supposed to sound like “baby car”, and means “stroller”.

  • FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago
    Somehow I just knew these words would get the Japanizu treatment

    It must be because they love and respect British culture so much, right? 😁 (pic related: Japan when they find out about britain)

      • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz
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        14 hours ago

        Don’t forget ハッシュドポテト hasshudo poteto for hash browns!

        Although I always hate romaji spellings because people unfamiliar with the pronunciation will absolutely not get the right idea by looking at it. It’s closer to “Hashdo poteito”

      • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        1 day ago

        When I was a kid, before you could translate stuff on the internet and we were waiting months for the new batch of translated Dragonball Z episodes to hit Toonami (I swear, if I come home from school today and it’s goddamn Radditz again, I’m gonna Destructo Disc my mom’s Camry), I got like a tiny little I guess travel book for translating English to Japanese thinking that maybe I’d start learning.

        The only word I remember is “hamburger” because the book showed the Japanese pronunciation as “haam baah gaah” lol

        • f314@lemmy.world
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          8 hours ago

          That’s pretty close, though!

          The thing is, the Japanese language has very few sounds compared to most languages, so their loan words have to be forced into the system of sounds they have.

          For «hamburger» specifically, they don’t have any of the vowel sounds in the English word. They also lack the rhotic «r» sound, or really any «r» sound at all (edit: that is similar to the languages they loan words from). Their «a» sound is an open sound as in «say aah», so they just ended up using a long version of it to approximate the «ur» and «er» sounds (which are really similar in American English!).

          • Axolotl
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            7 hours ago

            They do have an R if i remember correctly, it’s just that’s very similiar to an L to most learners due to their mother language, that’s also why Italians have it a little bit easier since we do use the same sound to make some words (we still have problems hearing it correctly because they way japanese uses it is very different and our brain gets tricked in to hearing an L instead of an R but we can make the sound with little to no practice compared to French or British people)

            • f314@lemmy.world
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              8 hours ago

              Yeah, I should have said that it is different from the «r» sound in most of the languages they use loan words from.

          • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz
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            14 hours ago

            They totally have «r» sounds. らりるれろ or ラリルレロ

            「ランチ」、「りょうり」、その他。

            • f314@lemmy.world
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              8 hours ago

              You’re right, but they’re pronounced a bit softer than in most European languages for example, and often approach an «L» sound in practice. But yeah, saying they don’t have them might have been a bit too simplistic.

              • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz
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                9 hours ago

                Oh so that’s what rhotic means. But yeah the only consonant sound that Japanese has that isn’t followed by a vowel is ん, which makes an “n” sound (though is often used for any “m” sounds preceding other consonants in loanwords).

                Although the “u” sound is often unvoiced, so usually what they do is use the letter in which the necessary consonant is followed by an “u”. For example く, す, つ, ぬ, ふ, む, ゆ, る as well as ぐ, ず, ぶ, and ぷ.

                So yeah, “hanbaagaa” is a lot better than “hamuburuguru” which would be the other way it could be written (but isn’t).

                It’s also sometimes spelled “hanbaagu”, but this might have a slightly different meaning. I’ve only seen it spelled that way in certain restaurants where it’s basically a patty served on a plate without the bun. They can do some really creative things with it though, depending on what else is on the plate.

                • SuperApples@lemmy.world
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                  7 hours ago

                  You’re spot on - ~ga is with bun, ~gu is without. I’m a fan on the Bikkuri Donki Cheese-in Hamburg (hamburger patty with cheese in the middle, covered with cheese for the 2x cheese version).

        • fleem@piefed.zeromedia.vip
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          22 hours ago

          i was there with you, waiting for years for some legendary yellow hair

          Honestly, I’m very thankful to have grown up with Dragon Ball Z with the Bruce Falconer soundtrack. Trying to go back to it now and listen to it with original Japanese music… It’s kind of awful for me lol Is that terrible to say?

    • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz
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      14 hours ago

      It must be because they love and respect British culture so much, right?

      More because that’s just how most loanwords are treated, especially western ones. There are a few that slipped through the cracks, mostly ones that were either introduced early on post-contact, or electrical appliances for some reason.

    • AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@piefed.social
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      1 day ago

      Actually, that’s an anglicism but the word for “farm” exists in Spanish: “granjear”. So you could say “granjear aura” but doesn’t sound cool.

      The difference with japanese is that some words don’t exist in their language so they adapt the english word to their language by transcribing the pronunciation as closely as they can with their phonems.

      • Sibshops@feddit.cl
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        1 day ago

        Farmear is definately a loan word, like pinku. It doesn’t have the same meaning as granjear or cultivar, either.

    • AItoothbrush@lemmy.zip
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      1 day ago

      I kept getting asked how i would say brainrot stuff in hungarian but its usually by native speakers of english but once it was by someone from burundi wnd i was like how would you say it in kirundi and it was fun looking at her think about it for a moment 💀. Also i surprised her so much when i knew how their flag looked, where the country is located and what langauges they speak cause i memorized it for every country on earth but she was used to people literally not knowing that burundi existed. Its fun to do it with people from smaller countries.

    • farmgineer@nord.pub
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      9 hours ago

      I never learnt that and would just assume it meant “peach” which, at least to me, isn’t the same. Interesting.

    • SuperApples@lemmy.world
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      12 hours ago

      That was my first thought, too… momoiro isn’t exactly common but everyone understands it. often see it on fancier products that don’t want to cheapen themselves with katakana