My ex from Norway mentioned how unusual it was that so many places and people here fly our flag (USA), so I was curious to hear what it’s like for others here on the fediverse.
I’m from Spain, it’s not uncommon unfortunately, but that’s because the flag is appropriated by the right and far right and if you see someone with one you can be 90% sure of the type (homophobe, anti abortion, bullfighting supporter, climate change denier, etc etc)
It has become that way in the US.
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Flying your country’s flag soft implies that you like your country, liking your country soft implies that you support and enjoy the status quo of your country. Conservatives seek to preserve the status quo. Therefore, conservatives and supporters of the status quo will always have a greater connection to the flag than those who are marginalized in the same country.
Patriotism and nationalism have a strong association, independent of how people opposed to nationalism feel about it. Why would we want to adopt a symbol that is even loosely associated with nationalism or suggests contentness with the status quo if we want to significantly change the status quo?
I disagree progressives flying the flag enables the hate of the right. In fact, I feel the opposite; flying the flag normalizes nationalistic tendencies instead of making you look like an obsessed weirdo.
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To change what it implies, to change what it’s associated with, to change what it symbolizes.
The phenomena I describe is much broader than the US and the current time period. It has existed across time and cultures, implying that there are broader factors at play than the opinions and behaviors of contemporary US culture. Flag waving nationalism is damn near universal. Americans only differ by how universally people feel the need to wave the flag.
My greater point is that you can’t change what the flag symbolizes by having different opinions and flying the flag. Symbols are just that: symbols. To change what the flag means you must either change what the US does or change the flag. Embracing national symbols only emboldens nationalism if your nation isn’t diametrically opposed to nationalism.
“That’s ours, we own it and it represents our values. See it flying everywhere? That’s because we own this nation, we’re the one’s in charge here, not you”
This is quite literally true and always has been. You don’t see flags representing the Lakota or Seneca nations anywhere, and the 13 stripes are a direct hat nod to the European colonization wiped them out. The state will not stop systematically repressing indigenous, black, or other marginalized peoples if progressives suddenly start identifying with the flag. It will just make progressives look supporters or useful idiots to that state oppression.
Why would I want to prevent right-wingers from taking sole ownership of something intended to represent a state with long history of right-wing violence, slavery, and military interventionism? They can have it. It’s as perfect of a symbol for right-wingers as any other. Should we fly the swastika to reclaim it too?
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Wanted to add to this, a couple other reasons why progressive-minded people wouldn’t want to fly the flag:
There’s inherent colonial symbolism in the 13 stripes on the flag, and flying it also can be seen as a celebration of colonial conquest over native lands.
If liberals regularly fly the flag, leaving only left-wing people who dislike the US as the only people not flying the flag, not flying the flag will actively become a political statement, placing a target on their backs, and becoming a reason to antagonize people just living their lives.
Could say the same about Germany
Everything except bullfighting goes for Croatia too, mostly.
Also from Spain, I don’t think the right hasreally appropriated the flag since it’s always been a rightist flag. But yeah I know what you mean.
The problem that the origin of our flag is dated in 1785 but because we were under the Dictatorship of Franco for 40 years, young people identifies the flag with that regimen (extreme right). But not everydody things that way 😏 🙄
I am from Germany and no one is raising a flag. Except he is a Nazi. Or it is soccer World Championship.
That’s kind of sad. It’s getting that way in Canada. Trudeau has called people every ism and ist when they are carrying a Canadian flag that people don’t fly it very much.
It’s not perceived as sad because it’s just something most people have no desire to do. Flags just aren’t a super common decoration you see outside of store advertisements and official government buildings. “I should install a flag pole on my property” is already a rare thought in most places and a lot of people then rather put a flag about something that is special to them on there. In line with that thought, being German in Germany obviously isn’t that special, so it’s usually not your choice of “displaying something that is special to me” unless you have a right-wing mindset. You’ll more often see football teams, maybe music bands and the more rare political issue here and there, like “stop nuclear power plants”.
In the UK it’s very unusual unless it’s football or royal related. The union flag, the Welsh flag and the Scottish flag are ok most of the time but the England flag is seen as being a bit racist.
Indeed. Both the England flag and the Union flag are pretty much non-existent in London outside of official buildings, unless there is an event or holiday (including sports). It’s more common to see other nation’s flags in windows, which is fair enough.
In Scotland, it tends to indicate your political beliefs. People flying the Union Jack are normally unionists and supporters of the monarchy, whereas people flying the Saltire (Scottish) flag are normally nationalists (pro-independence). It’s therefore difficult to fly a flag ‘neutrally’ unless you were to fly both.
Tends to be the same case in England with people flying the St George’s cross and the Union Jack
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usually its the churches and during the world cup we see St George’s cross, it’s more of the Union Jack or Ukraine flags here in suburb London.
Unless it’s the world cup you’re assumed to be a shithead
can confirm
Can confirm too
Very common in Mexico during September. Otherwise not that common but also not frowned upon. There’s no significance behind it.
Why September?
September 16 1810, Mexico’s Independence Day from Spain.
My country is a former colony of an imperial power so it’s flown all the time to reinforce our feeling of sovereignty
Are you in the US? 😁
no
What about now?
no
I am from India. It was illegal to fly the flag untill a decade ago. It took a supreme court verdict to get the right to fly the flag in private residences. So it is not common at all. You would see government buildings and some schools hoist the flag every day. In my school it was every Friday. I have walked around suburbs in US and almost every house had a flag in their porch. Very big ones too.
Canada: VERY common and considered standard practice, we like to make fun of the Americans for being obsessed with their flag but overall we’re just as bad. It’s also flown by Nazis as often as the American flag is.
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Flying Canadian flags is generally a more subtle sign that someone is like that. Usually the people that do are polite and not overtly assholish, just avoid the following topics with them:
- Immigration
- Indigenous rights
- China
- Russia
- India
- Islam (non-Christian religions in general)
They will still be super polite while being racist. Canadians seem to have mastered that.
Interesting thing is that racist Canadians are often still fairly LGBTQ+ supportive, those are generally seen as separate issues in Canada, which is better than nothing I guess? The way that is counteracted like in your example is if they fly the Canadian flag with another country’s flag, immigrant families do that a lot and they are usually genuinely pleasent and nice people.
I’m a New Zealander. I don’t see anyone flying a NZ flag in Dunedin, where I live. I may have seen one or two in private residences in my life. Flying flags is weird. Nationalism sucks.
kia ora bro nationalism teaches u to hate people youve never met
Australia: Very unusual. I’ll see someone doing it maybe once a month and always think “fucking weirdos”. It’s more common to see Aboriginal flags, but still uncommon
It’s more common to see bogans using it as part or their beach or BBQ attire (eg, maybe an Australian flag stubby cooler)
German here. No, we don’t do that here. (Exceptions: Football World Cup and weird dudes on camp sites or allotment gardens. Usually a sign to avoid the area.) Interestingly, the fascists don’t show the German flag, but the one from the Germany before the current one…
Whats the matter with camping sites? Saw that too
I … have no idea. Really.
Austria: not often and I like that. Not a fan of nationalism, so the less visible this is in my life the better. I see flags IRL mainly on government functions and when right wingers parade around, maybe also near football matches, that‘s about it.
I‘d like to think the history with Nazis made it less popular, but the actual amount of far-right voters makes me think I might just live in a happy little bubble and I’d be shocked if I looked into people‘s cellars.
Australian here. Outside of official government uses, it’s generally a sign that someone is a racist fuckwit.
Interesting, I though those groups tended to prefer the eureka stockade flag. Has it shifted more to the Australian flag now?
we should replace the union jack with the first nations flag
Kangaroo with lasers coming out of its eyes
When I went to Norway I counted the flags I saw. I forget the exact number but I saw maybe 6 in the week I was there. Come back to the US I saw at least 20 coming back from the airport.
